Rick takes the driver's seat in his home studio.

September 2002

The following conversation is the first of two parts which took place between Rick Allen and Kevin Stein in Malibu, California, on September 5th and 9th.

First of all, what’s going in your Def Leppard world?

The new album is doing very well worldwide. The amount of press that we’re doing would indicate a proper world tour. So, in preparation, we’ve been playing some live shows—there have been quite a few acoustic performances in England, Germany—I just got back from a weekend playing over in Poland, Finland, and Sweden.

We’ve also been doing some promotional dates for radio in the U.S. and in our hometown in Sheffield, England. The U.S. dates have included parts of the Midwest and New York—where we played at a really small venue downtown called Irving Plaza that was really memorable. That gig was part of the record company release party, and the fans and record company execs were all very excited. Joe didn’t have to sing because everybody sang for him.

We’re also going to be making a follow-up video in support of "Long, Long Way To Go" and then we’ll begin rehearsals in October for the next tour. We’re planning to tour Japan in November, but after that, it’s anyone’s guess! What I do know is that, after Japan, we’re going to play to whoever wants to see us—weddings, Bar Mitzvahs...the usual arena-size events.

Who are your greatest influences as a drummer?

Ian Paice with Deep Purple. My brother actually brought home "Deep Purple In Rock" and the two of us would play air guitar to the record. But, since we only had one tennis racket, I ended up air drumming because my brother was bigger than me—and that’s the truth! Stuart Copeland had a tremendous influence on me. His style is very refreshing. Keith Moon. John Bonham. Simon Kirk—and a slew of Big Band records that my father had at home. Like Gene Krupa.

That’s interesting. I have to admit at being surprised when Keith Moon told me that Gene Krupa was his biggest influence...

Well, I also have to mention non-drumming influences like Sam Cooke and Louis Armstrong. My father introduced me to listening to Elton John. When I eventually met him, I went up and asked him to sign an autograph for my Mom and Dad (Laughs).

The current and next issues of Modern Drummer have a great two-part interview with you that is very comprehensive from a technical and historical point of view. But, I still wanted to ask one more question about what musical styles influenced you the most?

The most influential thing was really the marching bands that would play in my old neighborhood. It was very infectious. I just loved that rhythm. I just thought that it was such a trip that you could play drums that loud in public and get away with it. I tried setting up in the garden one time and was shut down in about ten minutes—and I was not really as loud as those groups!

Moving on to Raven Drum, Lauren spoke in last month’s newsletter about the inspiration behind the Foundation. Can you describe the significance of the Raven as part of the Foundation’s namesake?

I've learned that to many indigenous cultures, ravens represent the power of transformation. To some cultures, the raven is a bridge between this world and the afterlife. There are many other meanings as well—like so many power animals, the stories vary geographically and historically—but there seem to be some universal themes that arose over time.

As an archetype?

Exactly. And the fact that we hope Raven Drum instills a sense of empowerment through its programs and philosophy seems to fit the image of Raven as ‘Transformer’. At its core, empowerment leads to transformation--transformation of beliefs—especially belief in a more harmonious way of living with the Planet--and each other.

The Indians of the American Northwest Coast like the Kwaikutl saw Raven almost like the Greeks saw Prometheus—a figure who was responsible for stealing light from the Upper World and bringing it to the Middle or human world. He was a trickster messenger figure.

It’s interesting. It depends on the tribe and the variations are rich. In some traditions, Raven would just hang out in the Western skies where the sun sets and where the bridge is between light and dark, day and night. Somewhere along the way, he works with light in those traditions, too.

The other thing that is fascinating about ravens is—remember that book we all read, The Mind of the Raven, by Bernd Heinrich? He calls them "wolf birds" because of their pack behavior and monogamy, among other things.

Yeah, I never realized that there was such a community and family spirit to the Raven. And the book also describes how intelligent they are—they seem capable of logic, you know, they way Heinrich talks about how talented they are at finding food during the bleakest, dead of winter—and then sharing it with the other wolf birds. In terms of Raven Drum, I think that the single most important thing is that the Raven represents the possibility of transformation where light meets the darkness.

Sort of like the Winter Solstice in a way?

Right, the dead of winter. And it’s been called a "death bird"...

Like the owl in some shamanic traditions?

Yes, but it’s important to see that it’s not really a physical kind of death you’re talking about when someone says, "death bird".

Speaking of tribal and shamanic traditions, when did you first become aware of indigenous percussion and how has "world drumming" influenced your technique--and life?

My folks came over from England just after my daughter turned two in 1999, and we went out to a Chumash Pow-Wow in Agoura Hills, California, which is a couple of miles from my house. Anyhow, to see my daughter and folks dancing around a circle with a group of Chumash people was unique. I’d never seen that sort of expression before. It was very appealing.

I was looking for some original sounding shakers at the time and there were a bunch a stalls where merchants were selling all sorts of interesting things. I approached one of the stalls and the Indian merchant there explained how the natives gathered stones for their shakers. The ants did all of the hard work, you see, because they would carry all of the stones and place them outside their nest—so that you would get the perfect-sized, uniform shaped stones for a shaker. It’s kind of a symbiotic relationship where the shaker wouldn’t sound right if they didn’t take the stones from the ants’ nest.

Right off the bat, I was taken by the dance and expression and the wonderful, harmonious relationship the Indian tribes acknowledged and celebrated between themselves and the Earth.

How are tribal teachings--like the spirit of the Pow-Wow you just described--integrated in the Raven Drum mission?

Indigenous philosophies have proven time after time that we can all live in harmony with the Planet. But, I have a theory that out of everything conquering peoples stole throughout history from native peoples, what they should have stolen first was the philosophy. Then, there would have been no need to steal anything else. And then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in now...

It’s Raven Drum’s mission to bring that ancient knowledge back to the forefront of people’s attention and to provide them a forum to experience this kind of wisdom as a daily practice. It’s the difference between getting out there as a family and playing some music together, as opposed to sitting around the TV.

Speaking of getting up and dancing, are there any recordings you might recommend as an introduction to world percussion music for people who are interested?

You got to start with Mickey Hart’s "Planet Drum" series. The books and CD’s are an amazing resource and a great introduction that goes into the world of global percussion in a profound way. They should really be made into some sort of film and we’ve been talking about something like that as a future Raven Drum project. "Planet Drum" is a great way for anybody who wants to dig deeper into the rich history of humankind and how we evolved as human beings. Mickey literally takes it back to the Big Bang—or the Big Beat!

Another recommendation would be Buddy Helm’s books including The Way of the Drum. His knowledge of indigenous percussion is real tight, both from a theoretical and practical point of view. He’s a world traveller who spends lots of time among drum makers in West Africa, in particular. His books are fantastic for interested readers who hunger for the many answers as to where the Beat originated.

You and Lauren have been back and forth to the U.K. several times this summer. Can you tell us about Raven Drum’s activities there?

We were over in England in July again. Weston Park is a teen cancer facility in my hometown, Sheffield. We were invited by the staff there to share a Raven Drum-style workshop with some of the patients. Typically, what that involves is breathing exercises, visualization, meditation, and drumming. What the experience is like for the participants is pure joy.

I believe it was an empowering experience and took them away from the difficulties they were experiencing in treatment, and ultimately, through the Circle, they experienced a sense of community and that they weren’t alone. Everybody, including the Cancer Ward staff, had an incredible experience. We’ve been invited back in the fall for their Conference On Alternative Medicine.

We also met with the Elton John AIDS Foundation who are doing some very interesting work with traditional local healers in Africa who are working alongside with MD’s. Western allopathic medicine is meeting the local witch doctor! They are discovering that the indigenous populations trust their own people who have been acting in a way to bridge both worlds.

We are looking at some exciting programs that we can partner with them on. They were especially interested in our involvement with the teens at Weston Park since they are also doing a lot of work with adolescents. But, we are looking at working with them on any number of programs. Really, Raven Drum wants to be wherever we are needed.

How did the Warrior Drum Workshop evolve?

The original idea came from Lauren’s observations of me explaining to other people what I do as a drummer. She thought that my perspective coming out of a physical challenge could be applied to a more formal workshop situation which would include other individuals who had faced or were facing adversity—whether physical or mental.

What was it about your explanation that captivated Lauren so much?

With me, it’s try and forget that you are drumming at all. I was different--and so was my original explanation of how I work. I just forgot my two-armed roots and set my drums up accordingly. That was the thing that sparked her interest.

I remember you talking about how--after you lost your arm--that there was still a physical presence there which you felt and described as "shrinking over the course of a month or so". While I can’t begin to imagine your pain and anguish at the time, it made me think that you were blessed in a way to have a direct experience of your energy beyond the body...

Most of what I know about the energy bodies I learned about in Lauren’s Energy Medicine Class in Boulder, Colorado. She’d actually invited me to one of her classes to speak about what I experienced when I lost my arm.

Shortly after I came around—probably a week after my accident—I began to sense a different body. I experienced my missing arm in a non-physical form as energy. I remember asking my father to reach out and touch me where my left arm was. At first, he reeled back in astonishment, fear, surprise—but then, he seemed to recognize what I was feeling and reached out and touched where I’d prompted him to. He was truly amazed and exclaimed: "Your arm is still there!"

It was a tremendous validation and actually, what arose out of that for me next was: "So, what happens if a person isn’t around anymore? What happens to their energy? Does that disappear? Could it be possible that we could exist beyond the physical?

Here is the continuation of the interview conducted with Rick by Kevin in Malibu.

What are you listening to these days?

Whatever's happening in the basement (where Rick's home recording studio is situated)--which means a lot of Lauren Monroe! We're working on a project with help from Tom Meredith. He's a New York-LA based singer-songwriter, composer and engineer extraordinaire. It's kind of an eclectic project.

Other things we're listening to are: "Sam Cooke's Greatest Hits", David Gray's "White Ladder", Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me", India Arie's "Acoustic Soul", "Spirit Chaser" by Dead Can Dance, Peter Gabriel's "Shaking The Tree", "Supralingua" by Mickey Hart and Planet Drum, "Chakra Chants" by Jonathan Goldman, X-Tribe and lots of U2.

Speaking of your own recording project with Lauren, I heard strains of "Mountain Song" coming up from downstairs and we've actually received a number of emails about it (a version was released for a while on the original Raven Drum web site)...

"Mountain Song" was originally conceived of in Boulder (where Lauren used to live and teach), and it took on a life of its own. After 9/11, we decided that the song might help people. So, we made it available to everybody on the web site.

When is it going to be available again? (Lauren answers)

The track is being mixed right now and will probably be completed by the end of November, but it's intended to be commercially released as part of a larger project that's also in the making right now.

You're also making use of some drum sampling, right?

"The Gathering" is another piece that is sort of a ceremonial journey around the globe through drums. It originally started out with an American Indian drum loop and grew into more and more percussion tracks and instruments from the farthest reaches of the most diverse points of the Planet. Artist Collective member, Carl Roessler, came in and graced us with his didjeridu. I just kept layering a new drum from a new continent and it all sort of makes sense. The whole is greater than the parts. These two songs and more are going towards a whole collection that we hope to release.

You've been reading Fast Food Nation. Any thoughts?

The book reminded me in a very graphic way of what I already knew. I knew that there was a dark side to the Fast Food Industry. We eat too much. But, on a more serious note, I realized that as consumers, we can influence what the Food Industry produces and makes available. It sounds corny, but whatever happened to the notion of sitting down for food with your family and fellow workers and finding more organic ways of enjoying what we eat? I mean, I don't want to sound preachy, but so much of what we do--food included--is habit where we don't really think about the journey that food makes to arrive on our tables--and what happens to it in the interim...

I'm glad that the book has had a wide audience and has even seemed to have an effect on some of the chains wanting to produce more alternatives--you know, McDonalds changing the oil they use...but, getting back to music, I recall you saying that you didn't really start drumming consciously until four or five years ago? Can you talk about that?

Sometimes, I would have really magical shows where I could do no wrong. I mean, it felt effortless, like I couldn't put a foot wrong, you know, just natural playing without thought. It was sort of like being possessed. And I could never figure out what the formula was. Then, the philosophy of intention came into play in my life--the intention behind what you do in anything is everything--playing drums as well.

So, how did you begin to approach the drums differently at that point?

Through prayer and visualization. To see the good intention and my energy coming throught the sound of the drums and ultimately, making people feel as good as they could feel through the music. And really, the exchange of energy is the formula.

What impact did this have on the Band?

The Band started to ask me why it was that I smiled so much when I was playing. I told them that it had to do with the prayers that I said before I played the show. As an example from something as simple as: "May this be good for everyone concerned." That includes the Band, the crew, everyone who is in the audience and anybody who happens to be listening at home. Something like that has the power to go a long way.

Where did that striking back cover design for the new album come from?

Isn't that fantastic? It's a prayer box from North Africa that Lauren found and gave to me. When the man of the house was going to be away hunting or whatever, she would use the box while he was there--that is, she would prayer into it--and then give it to him the box before he left. Rob Bergman, our web maestro, took the photo.

How did your electronic kit evolve?

Mark Sempff has a blueprint on the Def Leppard site that shows it in detail. But, the story is that I was laying in a hospital bed and realized that I could play all the basic patterns I originally played with both my arms with two feet. At the base of my hospital bed was a piece of foam and I could play basic patterns by just tapping on the foam and a friend of mine named Peter Hartley, who was an electronics whiz came to see me and saw what I was doing with the foam and my feet.

He immediately said, "I can make foot pedals for you, and with the use of electonics, you can play again." Foot pedals and electronic drums seems to have come a long way. When I first lost my arm, there weren't many available and that's why my friend decided to build them from scratch. Now, electronic drumming is very prevalent and convenient. Especially when you have neighbors! You know, most of the electronic drummers I know use headphones so that they don't drive the neighbors insane.

It started out when I got hold of some Simmons pads and an SDS5--a sound producing module or brain.When I got out of the hospital, Simmons became more and more interested in what I was doing and introduced me to more modern equipment. Then, a Swedish company called d drum introduced me to their electronic drums which gave me more access to sounds. The kit has been through changes, but fundamentally, the way I play the drums is the same as the day I realized I could play in the hospital. Today, my kit consists of custom pedals, custom DW-Axis pedals developed by Jerry Johnson. A company from Florida--Hart Dynamics introduced me to their brand of drum pads--the Accupads. This is really weird--the guy's name is Peter Hart. I also use Z-8 Akai sampling units.

Back to Raven Drum, where do you see the Foundation in five years?

I see Raven Drum as a way for people to have more access to the wisdom of our ancestors. We'd like to have our own centers where people can spend time discovering the virtues of ancient philosophies and practices. I dream of having a global impact, but we've got to start locally.

(At this point in the intervew, Rick asked Lauren to join in)

How do we get from here to there? As Rick said, by first developing programs locally and later, in other places throughout the country. First, in LA, and then in New York, and then hopefully, in other places within five years. Within five years, we'd also like to be doing Raven Drum Tours with the Artist Collective bringing together the Artists and members from the populations we're teaching as well. At the same time, we want to be teaching people how to do their own circles.

But this year, we foresee creating a really solid program in LA and starting one in New York.

I just have to ask Rick one other question about drumming. Are you ever frustrated at not being able to play something?

There's frustration, but as we all know, life is a constant learning curve. So, I turn my frustration into action and try to improve on what I've been blessed with.